There are a bunch of modders over there (I'm one of them) and there are tons of good ideas that needs to be part of the game. So the question is: why don't we all modders do a SINGLE mod for goodness sake? It should be a single mod which adds all the already modded contents and even more. I don't know if you will like my idea, but since we know what are the problems, we just need to find a definitive solution, and cooperation leads us to the right path.
This means that we have to understand our differences of opinion and try to do a single masterwork instead of little works that sometimes are overlapping one another.
We also need testers - as the mod goes on, we'll need the best support from players. Good ideas are also really appreciated.
This means that from now, all modders should definitively stop their own works (I'm included in the list) and try to work together for a new way of gaming.
If my idea will work, we're going to compile the best mod possible and it could become a must-have for every supcom2 player.
Let me know if you share the same idea.|||You have a number of issues that will prevent something like this going through.
First, egos.
We get a long well enough when we are working on our own projects, but we also step on each others feet from time to time. There are two modders who, while I do think they know what they are doing, have online personalities that make me want to strangle them for their (to me) hubris.
Second, vision.
Best example is that I think the 4D balance changes are and have been silly. A lot of people disagree with me. There is no changing that simple fact. You would need to get a fairly diverse group of people to all agree to one vision. Not very likely since this modding group has always had a culture of individualism.
Third, version control.
SupCom modding often requires multiple files to be changed to get even simple changes to work. When you start adding in new abilities or changing an entire gameplay mechanic, the number of files you touch increases dramatically. I would hate to be the person who has to reconcile changes.
Finally, interest.
Most of the senior modders are fairly ambivalent about modding SC2. We are too used to the smooth integration of modding into SupCom to want to fight with SC2's situation.
I am not saying it would be impossible to do this, but you would need to do some fairly hard work to get it going and keep it moving along.|||I think seiya nailed it pretty hard. Mind you, I could fix point three if I made people follow a few rules concerning structuring their mods (I even have something that improves GPG's standard hooking process). On the topic of vision, the best way to unify people would be a Forged Alliance redux conversion; everyone came from FA, and a lot of the drama concerning modding/gameplay stemmed from what was removed from FA.
I think interest will pick up a bit if SE/GPG opens up modding and mapping (note the two italicised words).|||Since we're sailing in a stormy sea, and since we won't know if they are going to release any mod\map support, the only way is to unify all available mods. I know it is hard - but we are only for this. I saw the enhancement and scale mod and I was pissed off when I realize they were almost the same thing done by two different people. My intention is to work together so the boring part is shared and because many minds can achieve a better result than a single person.|||How many modders live in the Steam forums? I'd be interested to first get a census of the potential Sup2 modding community before committing to anything.|||From what I understand (as I am one of the few here who refused to get SupCom2 for my own irrational reasoning) SupCom2 only allows 1 mod to be active at a time because it has to be done overwrite style. Now I have modded for both HW2 & Civilization 4 (pre-expansions) and they both had a similar setup which made things difficult at best.
Seiya's "Version Control" is actually the hardest part of the entire process because you don't just have to worry about keeping the files uptodate... which is easy. You also have to worry about the public opinion of what THEY want in the mod. If you have 500 people using your mod and half of them want one new crazy idea added while the other half doesn't you either accomidate both & split the mod into 2 active versions or you loose half your player base. I think when I finally gave up on Civ4 modding I had about 6 "active" versions of my Composite mod to update anytime i made a change common to all of them.
Your second biggest problem is a combination of seiya's vision & ego. Many of us modders like to do some things on the simple reasoning of "because we can". This is where some of the best weapon/unit creations come from... Its also where some of the most unbalanced or contraversial creations come from. Who has the final decision about whats included in the mod? If its the public then look back at my previous paragraph... If its a specific modder than look at Seiya's "ego" paragraph.
The last thing that is going to be a big problem in any project like this is theft. We all know this community's point of view when it comes to someone taking something without permission as its been hashed many many times. In this enviroment where you can turn on and off specific mod groups with ease it makes sence. Unfortunatly in an enviroment where only 1 mod can be active at a time you WILL see other people copy your models/code because its the only way for them to run it in conjunction with their mod ideas. I don't know how many times I witnessed fights in the HW2 community when one project would release a new ship only for it to end up in 3 other projects before the thing was out of beta reguardless of the creators permissions. Combined with how attached we get to our creations thats a small nuclear weapon with a hair trigger.|||I know there are many problems and issues that are hard to solve, but I also know that there are many ideas that could become reality and they could be largely accepted by the community. For example, simple balance changes for ACUs are a must and a total overhaul of the research system (with the possibility for example of a eco boost divided in tiers) could be a real improvement. Also, the scale mod, the old FA eco system, my changes to Experimentals, are a good start. I don't think that someone don't like them, or at least they could accept them for the community sake.
Steam modders are roughly the same you can see over here.
Anyway I think that adding new units though hard is still possible.|||Other than modeling, adding new units to SC2 is the easiest modding you can do on it. It is also the only one that would not require a monolithic mod. It is any lua changes that are hard.|||Quote:|||i agree with Esch1lus.
Those 3 area's could use the most work, and if there are 3 (or more) modders ready to work on these seperate area's than you might pull this off.
In the latest kingsandcastles videoblog it was also mentioned, that the community wants to mod, and that they would (logically) implement this is a very modular system.
Too bad this is not in SC2.. which it should have been.
With such a system multiple mods could co-exist, like mutators, and therefor this whole discussion wouldn't exist.
Anyway, i hope you guys are willing to throw your heads/minds together and make a wonderful mod.|||Don't worry - I got a friend of mine who is helping me with lua and he told me that the old FA economy system is possible and rather easy to do (he told me that it requires time - but it's not impossible to do).
If we implement old FA economy, I think that introducing different eco tiers could be interesting (via research I assume).|||Another reason why I don't have faith in this project; you appear to not know what the [modding] community is doing. theshadowlord, has made an FA economy mod.
It doesn't look particularly good when you're relying on your friend's word about the economy when the forum thread immediately below this on (when I wrote this) was that very mod.|||I tell ya, we love it when some noob without a clue gets a forums account and starts spouting crap about making a consolidation mod or how everything should be rewritten to suite their tastes.
Just a few things you should realize before posting next time:
1) Your only like the billionth person to come here and attempt this.
2) Unless you know how to mod, dont go around telling others how to.
3) Mods dont come together overnight and in many cases the mods currently avalible here have taken months if not years to get to the point they are at.
4) Just because you have a friend of a friend that has a clue (or thinks they do) doesn't automaticly translate into you knowing D!ck.
5) Your effectively wanting to mod a game that is considered by many of the modders here to be a dead platform.|||I run 3 mods side by side as long as they don't have the same files inside they will work, and sorry to say my mod has nothing to do with theshadowlord scale mod, yes it changes the scale of the game, theshadowlord gave me alot of help and guidness with out him i wouldn't of got were i am at the moment apart from that my mod show off my though how i like the game to be, and you really think every one going to think the same as you your mod is just a few small bp changes were scaling goes way past that, what has taking me 4 weeks to start from the ground up and yes adding in FA economy is only 3 or 4 lines in each unit bp to get that to work, but that doesn't change want needs to be done for the ai, units and building affects to work with it, with out those you have nothing.
If modders were to join to make one mod what could you add that we would all ready now how to do in 5 minutes|||He just kept talking in one long incredibly unbroken sentence, moving from topic to topic, such that no one had the chance to interrupt him; it was really quite hypnotic.
/ sorry, but these threads are always amusing. Good luck though.|||liveordie|||Hi,
I personally am very VERY dissapointed with sc2..
i went out bought the game played it.. LOVED the new gfx system (hated the cartoon textures though) loved all the lights, glows, meshes, aniamtions, being able to walk over platforms, infact i loved all the new toys sc2 has brought...
BUT
in reallity we got AR$E CRACKED by gpg for the xbox 360 version, i personally havent double clicked the exe since 3 days after i bought it. i feel so let down in terms of modding abilities, i saw screenshots videos interveiws all the works before sc2 came out.. and i had wonderfull ideas about modding it, dont get wrong it is barely moddable.. but why would we want to mod it when you can only use 1 mod at a time (if that mod contains many changes great)
i think gpg left hooking in the demo so that all the hardcore fa fans would rush out and buy it on the first day of release... many of us did... guess what.... WE GOT GAMERAPED!! not enough units, and no modding... thanks gpg for taking my £29.99 and laughing in my face...
the game in my view gets religated to a xbox360 cross over which we all know... these kinda games are fun for 5 mins (because we are in ore with all the new bells and whistles) but the game gets boring very fast.. point of fact there is no point in wasting your time modding it (obviously there is good cause to look at the coding in the lua from an fa standpoint but thats it)
before i play this game again or even pull the box outa my bin draw gpg are going to have to enable modding like in fa, if they dont... which it looks like they are not going to... it will soon be disgarded and most prolly given to my nephew.. unless some uber cool modder here finds a away to enable hooking..
the committed fa modders here know that modding sc2 at this point is futile.
listen to there words and trust what they say... they been modding supcom for a long time. :)
these are my thoughts and what i beleive..
all this said you can do what you wish with your own time :)|||To be honest, I didn't want to reply to the posts above...
Quote:|||Esch1lus, the overall theme of all this ranting, is that modding SC2 is a bloody waste of time. Any / all of the serrious modders will / have said about as much.
In the event you do go thru with this your going to find the following:
1) Any and all posts in forums will most likely be flamed continuiosly and venomously. This is simply because we are beyond being pissed off at GPG for their half arse attempt with SC2. Unless something major is done to open up modding and release the games true potential, your going to be painting a bulls-eye on your forehead everytime you post something in forums.
2) The support you'd be able to get for an FA project will not automaticly extend down to SC2 projects. (simply because we have better things to do) Hence posting questions in forums about starting this and that project or needing help will only result in comment #1 taking full effect.
3) Even if your able to get something running, all you are effectively doing is telling GPG that the product they've released is acceptable. Hell, if the developers of the "Fallout" series pulled this crap, they'd soon find that their credibility was gone as would be their player base. Oh, and last time i checked the Fallout series is playable on both PC and console. One of the few major titles to do so and succeed on both platforms. The reason... they met the expectations of the PC platform before porting the game over to console. GPG just skipped that part and went strait for the console port before making sure their release was something people would actually play. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that this was done to maximize profits before the release of StarCraft 2. It's a pretty safe bet that the number of SC2 multi-player games bottomed out hard after Starcrafts release. Hence any longevity the game possibly had is gone and the odds of the game getting an update improving the situation is also GONE!
4) Gpg will in no way shape or form support or acknowledge your work. The simple fact remains since the first release of SC1, that modding support was never "officially" endorsed and what little support we did have was from the programers who created the original SC1 code. Who might i add did so on a volunteer basis and without pay.
5) Dont hold your breath thinking that your work reguardless of the scope or intent will ever matter to anyone in forums. Off hand I can think of maybe 10-15 who are active in forums that it may appeal to. (8 year olds wanting MORE NUK's) Most all of whom joined the forums just after the release of SC2 and in many cases have no experiance with SC1 or FA. (Much less are able to mod or install one for that matter)
Resin_Smoker|||edit: seems resin hit my sentiments right on the nail, lol|||Hey resin are you sure your the same person? I think thats the calmest responce I have ever seen from you in one of these types of thread
No offence intended of coarse :)|||I was just wondering why I received so many insults for an idea, that's all. My intention was misunderstood by the majority of the posters and there's no track of good proposal. My thread was in good faith, I never wanted to become the project leader or the best modder out there - I just wanted to learn how to mod, nothing else.
Henceforth, you could be both a good modder and a player, but your lack of good manners and the quickness of your venomous answers mark you as not-so-kind person.
If this idea is not accepted here, well, I'll pm the moderator and then I'll ask him to close this flame.|||I would say the quick venomous responces come from a lack of patiene from the core of the community. Mainly because your initial post can be taken as a "Demand" on the resorces of the community rather than a simple suggestion. Both types of requests have been hashed over so many times in the 3+ years this forum has been active that noone cares for it anymore. Especially when the person proposing it is not a modder and thus does not realize what kinda of work is involved in his suggestion.
You have to keep in mind that SupCom2 is not popular on these mod forums to begin with (can look at the cpl threads in Mod Dev Support to see specific reasons why) because GPG burned alot of people with that release in several ways. That helps compound the attitudes you are seeing unfortunatly.
Its like mod theft... Its one of the few issues that can be considered a sore spot for alot of the older people in this community and thus gets treated a little more heavy handed than normal requests. I don't think its truely personally untill after the flame ware is fanned further & sides start to form... But that happens in every argument thread I think
EDIT: Wanting to learn to mod is fine... All the resorces and most of the ppl willing to help in that endevor can be found in Mod Dev Support forum. If your trying to learn thats where you need to ask questions... But still keep in mind that SupCom2 is not popular there either.|||Exavier Macbeth|||Well, afaik GPG is looking to include some sort of all-encompassing modding tool into KnC.
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